Few names polarize film fans like that of Ralph Bakshi-either you love him or you hate him.
Here at Mr. Skin, we love him.
The animator/director of such sex-powered, mind-blowing "freak-era" cinematic benchmarks as Fritz the Cat (1972) (Picture: - - - ), Heavy Traffic (1973) (Picture: ) and Coonskin(1975) (Picture: - - - ), Ralph is no stranger to controversy or dangerous subject matter.
Confronting decades of inoffensive, kiddie-driven pabulum, Ralph exploded through Hollywood and blasted his gritty, one-of-a-kind art form -- feature length animated films exclusively for adults -- all over popular culture, only to have the studio moneymen ultimately drop the ball.
Alas, time has proven Bakshi no only a visionary, but spot-on in his original mission. Decades later, his movies are classics that continue to thrive on video and in campus theaters, revival houses and midnight showings. No one who sees a Bakshi production forgets it. With Ralph's Wizards (1977) (Picture: - - - ) and Fire and Ice (1983) (Picture: ) being issued on DVD this year, the national climate being more cynical than ever and the political landscape as explosive as at any time in history, the time is right for Ralph Bakshi's return.
Lucky for us, Ralph is ripe to join the ruckus.
After a 10-year hiatus, why are you back?
I'm starting to think that it's time to go back and do an animated feature. I've had some meetings on that. It's time. It's time to start yelling and screaming again. It's crazy out there. I don't like what I see.
I think animation has always been a great way to address certain issues that people may not be looking at. It's time to do some heavyweight animated film-If I could. Wizards is very important to me. I'd love to do Wizards 2. Because of what it says about technology, and the use of technology gone wrong.
Do you think you'll get the chance to do Wizards 2?
We'll see. People are still kind of surprised I'm alive. They all thought I died! No one leaves Hollywood, so they all thought I must have died.
But you can't wait to get back to work, right?
Let me explain to you what happened to me. When I started with Fritz, Heavy Traffic and Coonskin, I tried to make animation personal to my experience.
Everyone thought I was nuts at the studios, because basically Disney was king in those days. My kind of animation was unheard of. I mean, Fritz got an X rating the first time around. And so did Traffic. They played them on cable last week-uncut!
And the audiences at the time?
The audiences didn't quite know what to think because everyone was so Disney-fied in this country. And I got very tired.
The films were very low budget. There were always screaming fights at the studios to be frank-you can't show this, you can't say that. And every film was a battle. Paramount threw a film out, if you remember [note: this is a reference to Coonskin akak Streetfight, which languished for years before its official release].
So every fight was a screaming, low-budget guerrilla-war thing. And after 10 of those, I was exhausted. I was mentally unstable. I got tired of fighting. And being an artist, I said to myself -if I painted a picture, which is where I started in life-nobody would tell me anything. So I split.
You've become very popular with midnight movie cults.
The movies have never stopped playing, which has stunned me. I keep getting e-mails from young kids in high school that just ran into Fritz or Traffic. This is the fourth or fifth generation of kids in college, in high school and junior high, who have found these films and I'm stunned. Even my bad ones like Hey, Good Looking!
That's not a bad one!
You know, Looking was originally live and animated like Roger Rabbit-and Warner Brothers made me throw all the live action out. They made me reanimate the live action with my own money. Guess what? They were gonna sue me. They said this is ridiculous. And I have a live action version!
When Roger Rabbit came out many years later, I got a call from Warners asking if I still had the original negative for Looking!
Those pricks! I hope you told them off.
(laughs) They haven't spoken to me since.
With all these young kids now contacting you-and in a sense, vindicating you-does it feel good or is it more frustrating, like where were you?
Well, Wizards is being released on DVD. Fox is doing a brilliant job. I saw the color print and they did a magnificent job.
But you know what it took? It took a petition, and get this-I'm sitting down answering e-mails and some guy sends me a petition asking if I wanted to sign-trying to get Fox to re-release Wizards? (laughs)
I said okay. So I signed the petition, one of a thousand names or something. Ralph Bakshi wants Wizards released! (laughs)
It must be a real bitch to be ahead of your time.
Ahead of my time? No, I wasn't ahead of my time. The studios were behind the times. In other words, if they had handled the films better, the audiences were ready.
Scorsese was doing great films at that time, and other live-action directors were doing good things in the '70s. But [my films], each release was under-released, released with timidity. And I'm not blaming them!
Each film was an animated film; you couldn't take the stars to lunch. And I'm a fucking boor at lunch. They had nowhere to go with my film.
But I don't think I was ahead of my time. Charles Bukowski was writing at that time, Charlie Parker was playing, Jackson Pollack had already painted his masterpieces. So I don't know if I was ahead of my time. I know that my friends would have liked it if they could have found out where my pictures were playing! (laughs)
Speaking of a dark and scary world, where did the idea to use Adolf Hitler come from in Wizards? You had to know the response that would get.
Well, I never considered responses, to be quite honest. I never sat in a room and thought what somebody might think. I mean, I killed God in Heavy Traffic!
[Considering audience reaction] is terrible film making. A filmmaker's got to go with what he believes and if someone shows up to watch it, he's happy.
Now, if you're talking about fascism, basically what you have to careful about is that fascism always has a tendency to come back. And Hitler was the epitome of fascism. And my concern was that fascism was on the rise again. And it still is, really.
And this wizard found Hitler, who is a great orator, I guess. And rallied people to the fascistic cause, and scared the shit out of magic-and the Jews again. It was a very easy, correct choice. I don't care what people think. I'll kill Hitler every chance I get!
After 30 years of filmmaking, you're still known by mainstream America as "the guy who did Fritz the Cat. Do you mind that?
I don't mind that. I used to mind that. But now it's changed.
I agree with you that that's the way it used to be, but now Fritz, Heavy Traffic, Hey Good Looking and Wizards have become tremendously popular-visa vis the Internet. And they're selling Wizards tapes and Traffic.
My wife and I have been selling cells on eBay from every one of those films. 30 years worth of film cells and I keep asking [my wife] when is the audience gonna stop buying this stuff? Cause it's not cheap, but they keep coming.
So I used to be known just for Fritz, but not so much anymore. I mean, I'm proud of Fritz. I'd much rather be known for something, than not known at all.
Maybe they're only buying your cells, because they really do think you're dead, Ralph?
(laughs) Could be! When I come back and do a bad film, I'll know I'm alive! (laughs) I don't know. All that time [when I was making films], I thought maybe I ought to be a little more commercial.
If I were smarter maybe I could have been another Hanna-Barbera. But I just laughed, and I said fuck it. But there was a moment where I said, Ralph, maybe you should have just given in-because they caught up to me, the whole studio system. But they said go commercial or [else] and I quit! (laughs)
Sex and sexiness finds its way into all your work, which makes it so real. What kind of films do you find sexy?
No, my films aren't sexy at all. Basically most of my films have to do with an aversion to sex and a fear of sex.
But you have such sexy characters! There's Roz in Hey Good Lookin', Holly Would in Cool World (Picture: - )-
Holly Would was okay, but Roz in Hey Good Lookin'-that was my first wife! (laughs)
Way to work out those issues!
I did, I worked out those issues. I used to wear a black jacket. Roz eventually got on the back of a Harley with a guy and left me alone with a son in Brooklyn.
That son is now a vice president at Paramount Pictures. I raised him. Mark Bakshi, check it out! He's sitting there, making millions, on the budget side, running their productions.
Art imitates life, huh?
Well, Roz is my first wife. When I had a black jacket, she thought I was cool. When I started to draw, she called me a faggot and left. But these are true stories.
You think Roz was sexy? "Vinnie, my heart is filled with blah blah blah, love Roselyn."
What kind of bullshit is that? I just want a blowjob! (laughs) Leave me alone. What's all this mushy shit about? Of course, I was crazy, not Vinnie.
Do you find it strange that in this day and age, Halle Berry's sex scene wins her an Academy Award, and your films kind of made you an outsider?
Yes, I don't understand it. I mean, I understand it, you know, I've seen these things happen before to other guys. I'm not different.
Look at the ballplayers-Jackie Robinson used to make 50 grand a year. Joe Dimaggio used to make $100,000. He had to quit to make $125,000. You got kids today batting 190 making four million! How do you think the old ballplayers feel?
Were you surprised that Heavy Traffic got slapped with an X-rating? Do you think, it was just because of your reputation then? Or do you think it had to do with something in the picture?
It was basically stuff never seen before in animation, with animation having been a Disney's child thing. The power of it was enormous.
Since South Park and The Simpsons, a lot of the stuff has faded.
After watching Disney and Warner Brothers your whole life and never seeing anything else, and walking to a theater and seeing this-the power of it [today] is lost somewhat-but it blew people out of their seats. But I knew that would happen and that's why I did pictures that were political. People were screaming in the theater. But I learned a lot from those films.
I've always thought animation was the greatest medium in the world. And it is!
Images courtesy of RalphBakshi.com
Here at Mr. Skin, we love him.
The animator/director of such sex-powered, mind-blowing "freak-era" cinematic benchmarks as Fritz the Cat (1972) (Picture: - - - ), Heavy Traffic (1973) (Picture: ) and Coonskin(1975) (Picture: - - - ), Ralph is no stranger to controversy or dangerous subject matter.
Confronting decades of inoffensive, kiddie-driven pabulum, Ralph exploded through Hollywood and blasted his gritty, one-of-a-kind art form -- feature length animated films exclusively for adults -- all over popular culture, only to have the studio moneymen ultimately drop the ball.
Alas, time has proven Bakshi no only a visionary, but spot-on in his original mission. Decades later, his movies are classics that continue to thrive on video and in campus theaters, revival houses and midnight showings. No one who sees a Bakshi production forgets it. With Ralph's Wizards (1977) (Picture: - - - ) and Fire and Ice (1983) (Picture: ) being issued on DVD this year, the national climate being more cynical than ever and the political landscape as explosive as at any time in history, the time is right for Ralph Bakshi's return.
Lucky for us, Ralph is ripe to join the ruckus.
After a 10-year hiatus, why are you back?
I'm starting to think that it's time to go back and do an animated feature. I've had some meetings on that. It's time. It's time to start yelling and screaming again. It's crazy out there. I don't like what I see.
I think animation has always been a great way to address certain issues that people may not be looking at. It's time to do some heavyweight animated film-If I could. Wizards is very important to me. I'd love to do Wizards 2. Because of what it says about technology, and the use of technology gone wrong.
Do you think you'll get the chance to do Wizards 2?
We'll see. People are still kind of surprised I'm alive. They all thought I died! No one leaves Hollywood, so they all thought I must have died.
But you can't wait to get back to work, right?
Let me explain to you what happened to me. When I started with Fritz, Heavy Traffic and Coonskin, I tried to make animation personal to my experience.
Everyone thought I was nuts at the studios, because basically Disney was king in those days. My kind of animation was unheard of. I mean, Fritz got an X rating the first time around. And so did Traffic. They played them on cable last week-uncut!
And the audiences at the time?
The audiences didn't quite know what to think because everyone was so Disney-fied in this country. And I got very tired.
The films were very low budget. There were always screaming fights at the studios to be frank-you can't show this, you can't say that. And every film was a battle. Paramount threw a film out, if you remember [note: this is a reference to Coonskin akak Streetfight, which languished for years before its official release].
So every fight was a screaming, low-budget guerrilla-war thing. And after 10 of those, I was exhausted. I was mentally unstable. I got tired of fighting. And being an artist, I said to myself -if I painted a picture, which is where I started in life-nobody would tell me anything. So I split.
You've become very popular with midnight movie cults.
The movies have never stopped playing, which has stunned me. I keep getting e-mails from young kids in high school that just ran into Fritz or Traffic. This is the fourth or fifth generation of kids in college, in high school and junior high, who have found these films and I'm stunned. Even my bad ones like Hey, Good Looking!
That's not a bad one!
You know, Looking was originally live and animated like Roger Rabbit-and Warner Brothers made me throw all the live action out. They made me reanimate the live action with my own money. Guess what? They were gonna sue me. They said this is ridiculous. And I have a live action version!
When Roger Rabbit came out many years later, I got a call from Warners asking if I still had the original negative for Looking!
Those pricks! I hope you told them off.
(laughs) They haven't spoken to me since.
With all these young kids now contacting you-and in a sense, vindicating you-does it feel good or is it more frustrating, like where were you?
Well, Wizards is being released on DVD. Fox is doing a brilliant job. I saw the color print and they did a magnificent job.
But you know what it took? It took a petition, and get this-I'm sitting down answering e-mails and some guy sends me a petition asking if I wanted to sign-trying to get Fox to re-release Wizards? (laughs)
I said okay. So I signed the petition, one of a thousand names or something. Ralph Bakshi wants Wizards released! (laughs)
It must be a real bitch to be ahead of your time.
Ahead of my time? No, I wasn't ahead of my time. The studios were behind the times. In other words, if they had handled the films better, the audiences were ready.
Scorsese was doing great films at that time, and other live-action directors were doing good things in the '70s. But [my films], each release was under-released, released with timidity. And I'm not blaming them!
Each film was an animated film; you couldn't take the stars to lunch. And I'm a fucking boor at lunch. They had nowhere to go with my film.
But I don't think I was ahead of my time. Charles Bukowski was writing at that time, Charlie Parker was playing, Jackson Pollack had already painted his masterpieces. So I don't know if I was ahead of my time. I know that my friends would have liked it if they could have found out where my pictures were playing! (laughs)
Speaking of a dark and scary world, where did the idea to use Adolf Hitler come from in Wizards? You had to know the response that would get.
Well, I never considered responses, to be quite honest. I never sat in a room and thought what somebody might think. I mean, I killed God in Heavy Traffic!
[Considering audience reaction] is terrible film making. A filmmaker's got to go with what he believes and if someone shows up to watch it, he's happy.
Now, if you're talking about fascism, basically what you have to careful about is that fascism always has a tendency to come back. And Hitler was the epitome of fascism. And my concern was that fascism was on the rise again. And it still is, really.
And this wizard found Hitler, who is a great orator, I guess. And rallied people to the fascistic cause, and scared the shit out of magic-and the Jews again. It was a very easy, correct choice. I don't care what people think. I'll kill Hitler every chance I get!
After 30 years of filmmaking, you're still known by mainstream America as "the guy who did Fritz the Cat. Do you mind that?
I don't mind that. I used to mind that. But now it's changed.
I agree with you that that's the way it used to be, but now Fritz, Heavy Traffic, Hey Good Looking and Wizards have become tremendously popular-visa vis the Internet. And they're selling Wizards tapes and Traffic.
My wife and I have been selling cells on eBay from every one of those films. 30 years worth of film cells and I keep asking [my wife] when is the audience gonna stop buying this stuff? Cause it's not cheap, but they keep coming.
So I used to be known just for Fritz, but not so much anymore. I mean, I'm proud of Fritz. I'd much rather be known for something, than not known at all.
Maybe they're only buying your cells, because they really do think you're dead, Ralph?
(laughs) Could be! When I come back and do a bad film, I'll know I'm alive! (laughs) I don't know. All that time [when I was making films], I thought maybe I ought to be a little more commercial.
If I were smarter maybe I could have been another Hanna-Barbera. But I just laughed, and I said fuck it. But there was a moment where I said, Ralph, maybe you should have just given in-because they caught up to me, the whole studio system. But they said go commercial or [else] and I quit! (laughs)
Sex and sexiness finds its way into all your work, which makes it so real. What kind of films do you find sexy?
No, my films aren't sexy at all. Basically most of my films have to do with an aversion to sex and a fear of sex.
But you have such sexy characters! There's Roz in Hey Good Lookin', Holly Would in Cool World (Picture: - )-
Holly Would was okay, but Roz in Hey Good Lookin'-that was my first wife! (laughs)
Way to work out those issues!
I did, I worked out those issues. I used to wear a black jacket. Roz eventually got on the back of a Harley with a guy and left me alone with a son in Brooklyn.
That son is now a vice president at Paramount Pictures. I raised him. Mark Bakshi, check it out! He's sitting there, making millions, on the budget side, running their productions.
Art imitates life, huh?
Well, Roz is my first wife. When I had a black jacket, she thought I was cool. When I started to draw, she called me a faggot and left. But these are true stories.
You think Roz was sexy? "Vinnie, my heart is filled with blah blah blah, love Roselyn."
What kind of bullshit is that? I just want a blowjob! (laughs) Leave me alone. What's all this mushy shit about? Of course, I was crazy, not Vinnie.
Do you find it strange that in this day and age, Halle Berry's sex scene wins her an Academy Award, and your films kind of made you an outsider?
Yes, I don't understand it. I mean, I understand it, you know, I've seen these things happen before to other guys. I'm not different.
Look at the ballplayers-Jackie Robinson used to make 50 grand a year. Joe Dimaggio used to make $100,000. He had to quit to make $125,000. You got kids today batting 190 making four million! How do you think the old ballplayers feel?
Were you surprised that Heavy Traffic got slapped with an X-rating? Do you think, it was just because of your reputation then? Or do you think it had to do with something in the picture?
It was basically stuff never seen before in animation, with animation having been a Disney's child thing. The power of it was enormous.
Since South Park and The Simpsons, a lot of the stuff has faded.
After watching Disney and Warner Brothers your whole life and never seeing anything else, and walking to a theater and seeing this-the power of it [today] is lost somewhat-but it blew people out of their seats. But I knew that would happen and that's why I did pictures that were political. People were screaming in the theater. But I learned a lot from those films.
I've always thought animation was the greatest medium in the world. And it is!
Images courtesy of RalphBakshi.com
